WEBVTT

00:00:00.820 --> 00:00:05.440
I keep seeing all of these stories about governments

00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:10.240
trying to, you know, restrict social media, especially

00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:12.400
for kids right now. That's the, that's the new

00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:17.460
hot thing. You know, schools blocking apps, parents

00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:21.500
locking down phones and every single time I always

00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:26.760
have the same thought. Okay. So, you know, where

00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:30.010
are kids going to talk now? because they're going

00:00:30.010 --> 00:00:32.570
to talk. They're going to get around your restrictions.

00:00:32.710 --> 00:00:35.329
They're going to find a way because when I was

00:00:35.329 --> 00:00:40.719
a kid, we did the same exact thing. So, you know,

00:00:40.820 --> 00:00:44.570
thinking of, uh, you know, this generation, the

00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:47.649
Gen Z's and the Gen Alphas, they're, they're

00:00:47.649 --> 00:00:49.810
a little more tech savvy. They're definitely

00:00:49.810 --> 00:00:53.469
going to find a way. And they did because apparently

00:00:53.469 --> 00:00:59.079
this time the answer was NPR. This is the Tyler

00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:01.340
Woodward project. I'm Tyler. I'm a broadcast

00:01:01.340 --> 00:01:04.819
engineer in the radio and television broadcast

00:01:04.819 --> 00:01:07.120
industry, whatever you want to call it. And today

00:01:07.219 --> 00:01:12.799
we're talking about a group of kids who, you

00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:17.799
know, figured out that Spotify podcast comments

00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:23.120
could be turned into, you know, an underground

00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:28.200
group chat basically, and somehow NPR became

00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:31.000
the perfect hiding place for these kids. Now,

00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:34.400
quick disclaimer, as always, these are my opinions,

00:01:34.540 --> 00:01:37.739
my perspective, and the way I see things, I'm

00:01:37.739 --> 00:01:41.159
not telling you how to parent your children.

00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:45.980
I'm definitely not making that argument or an

00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:49.340
argument that kids should have unrestricted access

00:01:49.340 --> 00:01:51.799
to every social platform on earth, because I

00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:53.719
don't even think some adults should have access

00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.599
to social media. We're not going to go there.

00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:07.140
There are perfectly legitimate reasons why you

00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:10.919
might not want your 12 year old spending six

00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:15.139
hours a day on TikTok. I'm just saying that if

00:02:15.139 --> 00:02:18.180
your plan depends on teenagers politely accepting

00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:21.750
that the conversation is over, I've got some

00:02:21.750 --> 00:02:26.909
bad news for you. This story came from this American

00:02:26.909 --> 00:02:30.889
life. Dave Blanchard, who works on NPR's Wildcard,

00:02:30.949 --> 00:02:35.050
noticed something a little weird happening in

00:02:35.050 --> 00:02:39.509
their Spotify comments under one of their episodes.

00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:46.289
There was suddenly, out of seemingly nowhere,

00:02:46.830 --> 00:02:51.280
a bunch of activity. Which, if you work in a

00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:54.840
podcast, it's pretty exciting when you start

00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.060
seeing some activity under one of your episodes.

00:02:57.539 --> 00:03:02.000
people are engaging you're like yes all right

00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.560
finally someone's listening I mean there's probably

00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.479
more people listening to NPR than my podcast

00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:12.520
but you know when you get a little bit of activity

00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:16.919
on an episode it's genuinely exciting the audience

00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:21.650
is talking holy crap someone found the comment

00:03:21.650 --> 00:03:27.919
section except none of the comments made any

00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:31.990
sense to Anybody at NPR, there were a little,

00:03:31.990 --> 00:03:37.490
you know, there were these little fragments of

00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.090
conversations happening. Some somebody talking

00:03:40.090 --> 00:03:44.830
about a breakup, somebody talking about their

00:03:44.830 --> 00:03:49.550
cat, somebody complaining about whatever is happening

00:03:49.550 --> 00:03:53.590
out in the world. Somebody complimenting somebody's

00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:58.370
dress, random names, you know, whatever the new

00:03:58.370 --> 00:04:03.340
school slang is. hearts, emojis, all that stuff.

00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:08.599
Dave looked at all of this and came to what I

00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.930
think is a perfectly reasonable conclusion for

00:04:11.930 --> 00:04:15.189
an adult looking at the internet right now. Well,

00:04:15.330 --> 00:04:18.370
you know, these have to be bots, right? Of course

00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:23.709
it's bots. Everything is bots now in today's

00:04:23.709 --> 00:04:33.470
world. So he did what anybody who thinks looking

00:04:33.470 --> 00:04:37.029
at these comments and going, yeah, man, this

00:04:37.029 --> 00:04:41.269
looks like bots. Somebody's screwing with one

00:04:41.269 --> 00:04:44.230
of our episodes. I would do it. He started deleting

00:04:44.230 --> 00:04:48.160
the comments. Then another comment showed up

00:04:49.209 --> 00:04:52.589
complaining that somebody had deleted their comment,

00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:58.959
which presents a little bit of a problem with

00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.540
that bot theory. because now apparently the bots

00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:07.680
are pissed off at you. Dave went and brought

00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:12.209
this up to the other folks at NPR and eventually

00:05:12.209 --> 00:05:15.779
Hannah Chen looked at the comments, looked at

00:05:15.779 --> 00:05:19.350
the screenshots of everything and well, Hannah

00:05:19.350 --> 00:05:25.470
knew what was happening immediately. These weren't

00:05:25.470 --> 00:05:31.189
bots. These were actual kids. And Hannah recognized

00:05:31.189 --> 00:05:34.430
it because Hannah had done a version of the same

00:05:34.430 --> 00:05:37.879
thing growing up. They and their friends had

00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.819
limited access to social media. So they used

00:05:41.819 --> 00:05:45.519
Google Docs to talk to each other. You see what

00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.600
I mean? Kids are going to find a way to still

00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.019
communicate, regardless if it's social media,

00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.439
instant messaging, Discord, whatever it is, they're

00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:58.709
going to find a way. Now, Hannah and her friends,

00:05:58.709 --> 00:06:01.649
they weren't using Google Docs for homework.

00:06:02.050 --> 00:06:05.769
No, they were using it as a chat room. They type

00:06:05.769 --> 00:06:08.389
messages into the document delete them even turn

00:06:08.389 --> 00:06:12.240
the text white so it disappeared against the

00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.160
the white background which Me looking at it as

00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.209
a 40 year old You know thinking back to my days

00:06:20.209 --> 00:06:22.970
trying to get around stuff. I think that's brilliant

00:06:23.449 --> 00:06:28.709
also Excuse me somewhere an IT administrator

00:06:29.189 --> 00:06:33.569
Just he's got that nervous eye twitch going on.

00:06:33.569 --> 00:06:38.930
I guarantee it Hannah looked at these you know,

00:06:39.029 --> 00:06:42.230
the Spotify comments and immediately recognize

00:06:42.230 --> 00:06:45.850
the behavior, the weird usernames, cartoon profile

00:06:45.850 --> 00:06:50.050
pictures, short messages, excessive punctuation,

00:06:50.610 --> 00:06:56.850
conversations that made, you know, make absolutely

00:06:56.850 --> 00:07:00.920
no sense unless you're one of the, the people

00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:06.079
involved in the conversation. You know, think

00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.019
middle schoolers and they had apparently turn

00:07:11.019 --> 00:07:16.319
Spotify podcast comments into a group chat. The

00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:21.579
system they came up with is my favorite part.

00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:29.839
Somebody would make a public Spotify playlist

00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:34.300
and give it a name like, let's chat here or something.

00:07:35.410 --> 00:07:38.990
Inside the playlist would be one podcast episode.

00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:45.000
That's it. The playlist, you know, it really

00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.980
wasn't a playlist. It was, it was directions

00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:51.160
for everybody else. The other kids would find

00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:53.660
it, open the podcast episode, scroll down to

00:07:53.660 --> 00:07:56.620
the comments and there was the group chat right

00:07:56.620 --> 00:08:03.649
there. They built a, uh, a routing system out

00:08:03.649 --> 00:08:06.430
of Spotify playlist to direct people to mostly

00:08:06.430 --> 00:08:10.350
abandoned podcast comment sections. I got to

00:08:10.350 --> 00:08:15.870
tell you, excuse me again, I love this so much.

00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:19.110
this is this is so great because i kept saying

00:08:19.110 --> 00:08:23.199
it when i kept seeing these governments you know

00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.500
uk and and here in the us and school districts

00:08:26.889 --> 00:08:30.870
that uh we're gonna we're gonna prevent kids

00:08:30.870 --> 00:08:33.830
from getting on social media and youtube and

00:08:33.830 --> 00:08:36.950
all the other places they're going to find a

00:08:36.950 --> 00:08:44.289
way and this time it was spotify now we all know

00:08:44.289 --> 00:08:46.429
that's not what spotify built the podcast comment

00:08:46.429 --> 00:08:50.210
section for but you know It found another use.

00:08:50.929 --> 00:08:53.690
Spotify rolled out podcast comments back in 2024.

00:08:54.269 --> 00:08:55.830
It hasn't, you know, it's not that old. It hasn't

00:08:55.830 --> 00:08:59.809
been out that long, you know, as a way for creators

00:08:59.809 --> 00:09:04.120
and listeners to interact. Spotify did it so

00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:05.960
they can keep people on their platform and not

00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:10.139
have them going off to other social media channels,

00:09:10.139 --> 00:09:13.019
you know, keep you in their walled garden basically.

00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:19.590
But again, life finds a way kind of deal. Teenagers

00:09:19.590 --> 00:09:23.210
find the way normal stuff great episode. You

00:09:23.210 --> 00:09:25.149
know, that's that's what that's what Spotify

00:09:25.149 --> 00:09:27.720
would like, you know, great episode love Love

00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:32.009
that interview. I don't know. Can you do an episode

00:09:32.009 --> 00:09:36.029
about? whatever my Municipality is screwing up

00:09:36.029 --> 00:09:38.990
this time. Whatever people I don't know whatever

00:09:38.990 --> 00:09:42.509
people say in podcast comments this This hasn't

00:09:42.509 --> 00:09:44.669
happened to my podcast by the way, I don't get

00:09:44.669 --> 00:09:46.610
comments. Nobody's listening to me So if you're

00:09:46.610 --> 00:09:49.250
listening, I appreciate you. Let me know drop

00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:55.029
me a Spotify comment. Kids are looking at the

00:09:55.029 --> 00:09:59.299
podcast comments and going, nah, we're going

00:09:59.299 --> 00:10:02.759
to use this for something else. This American

00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:06.159
life eventually tracked down one of the kids.

00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:11.240
Her name is Ella. She's 14 years old. Ella explained

00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:13.240
that she wasn't allowed to use social media,

00:10:13.259 --> 00:10:20.299
but she was allowed to use Spotify. There are

00:10:21.700 --> 00:10:25.220
apparently been a video podcast on Spotify that

00:10:25.220 --> 00:10:28.370
played TikTok videos useful for kids who couldn't

00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:30.610
actually use TikTok. There you go. Finding another

00:10:30.610 --> 00:10:35.850
way around the blocks. Naturally, kids started

00:10:35.850 --> 00:10:38.990
talking in the comments there. Then the podcast

00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:42.669
got banned, but they still wanted to talk. So

00:10:42.669 --> 00:10:46.129
they improvised. They started using a playlist

00:10:46.129 --> 00:10:51.929
system. Now, according to Ella, there were maybe

00:10:51.929 --> 00:10:56.190
20 kids in the main group, mostly girls, lots

00:10:56.190 --> 00:10:59.419
of theater kids. A lot of them had parents who

00:10:59.419 --> 00:11:03.740
didn't allow the kids to use regular old social

00:11:03.740 --> 00:11:11.100
media. Then Ira Glass asked the obvious question,

00:11:11.500 --> 00:11:18.029
why NPR? Out of the entire Spotify podcast ecosystem,

00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:22.710
why are a bunch of teenagers hanging out underneath

00:11:22.710 --> 00:11:29.740
NPR shows? Now, the answer is either incredible

00:11:29.740 --> 00:11:32.259
or sad, depending on which side you're on, but

00:11:32.259 --> 00:11:35.580
they were looking for podcasts that didn't have

00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:42.159
many comments. That's it. NPR was useful because,

00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:47.399
well, nobody was over there. Ira basically points

00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:53.019
out that she picked NPR because it didn't seem

00:11:53.019 --> 00:12:00.179
very popular. Oh, I'm sorry, NPR, but... Kids

00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:05.679
find a way man and Ella agreed that may be the

00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:10.039
most devastating piece the of I don't know audience

00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:13.820
research public radio has ever received but but

00:12:14.110 --> 00:12:20.379
It gets better Ella's mom Well, she listens to

00:12:20.379 --> 00:12:24.870
NPR. So Ira asked whether that made NPR a good

00:12:24.870 --> 00:12:30.870
cover story if a parent You know happens to look

00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:34.320
at your phone You're not doing anything suspicious.

00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.259
You're listening to NPR educational responsible.

00:12:37.299 --> 00:12:42.340
Maybe you're learning something meanwhile 20

00:12:42.340 --> 00:12:44.919
theater kids are running an underground communications

00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:49.860
network underneath the NPR podcast and yeah apparently

00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:54.799
that was part of you know, the appeal perfect

00:12:56.789 --> 00:13:04.720
and This is exactly what I mean when I say kids

00:13:04.809 --> 00:13:09.090
will always find a way because this is not new

00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:14.389
behavior. The interesting part is how far back

00:13:14.389 --> 00:13:20.110
it goes. And to clear up the timeline, to make

00:13:20.110 --> 00:13:22.730
the timeline more clear, my part of this story

00:13:22.730 --> 00:13:29.110
is right in the middle. I was born in 1986. So

00:13:29.110 --> 00:13:33.590
the jam line story I'm about to get into was

00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:37.220
a little before my time, but it happened. Now

00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:40.450
my time would have consisted of aim, you know

00:13:40.450 --> 00:13:45.669
AOL instant messenger MSN instant messenger ICQ

00:13:45.669 --> 00:13:49.090
IRC all that kind of stuff Google Docs as a secret

00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:52.710
chat room that came after me, but also again

00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:57.649
brilliant Spotify comments are the current version

00:13:57.649 --> 00:14:02.720
of this Same behavior different equipment. Let's

00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.080
go. Let's go backwards first in the Twin Cities

00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:09.730
starting in the late 1960s and continuing into

00:14:09.730 --> 00:14:13.289
the early 80s, teenagers discovered something

00:14:13.289 --> 00:14:17.940
called the jam line. Now again, that was before

00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:21.460
I was born, but by the time I showed up in 86,

00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:25.779
there was already another generational version

00:14:25.779 --> 00:14:31.789
of the same thing. There was a quirk in the telephone

00:14:31.789 --> 00:14:34.269
network where multiple people could dial the

00:14:34.269 --> 00:14:37.789
same phone number and end up all connected together.

00:14:38.450 --> 00:14:43.610
Basically an accidental group chat. except instead

00:14:43.610 --> 00:14:47.779
of an app, you've got a screaming busy signal

00:14:47.779 --> 00:14:51.610
in the background. Kids figured this out and

00:14:51.610 --> 00:14:53.769
started using these phone lines to meet people

00:14:53.769 --> 00:14:57.429
and talk. The phone company would find the jam

00:14:57.429 --> 00:14:59.909
line and shut it down. Then the kids would find

00:14:59.909 --> 00:15:02.860
another one. The new number would spread through

00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:06.179
schools. The phone company again would shut that

00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:09.490
one down. Then another one would appear. You

00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:12.559
know, starting to sound a little familiar. Then

00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.580
you move up to You know, my generation, I was

00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:18.000
again born in 86. So when the internet really

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.740
started showing up in people's homes, I was a

00:15:20.740 --> 00:15:23.159
kid. I was right in the middle of it. AOL Insta

00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:28.019
Messenger launched in 1997. It was about, I don't

00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:34.120
know, 10 or 11. By 2000, I was about 13, 14 years

00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:38.169
old. That was my version of this. The family

00:15:38.169 --> 00:15:42.149
computer was supposedly there for homework, school

00:15:42.149 --> 00:15:49.350
projects, maybe checking your email. But kids

00:15:49.350 --> 00:15:51.809
my age looked at the same machine and saw something

00:15:51.809 --> 00:15:55.230
completely different. AIM wasn't just instant

00:15:55.230 --> 00:15:58.250
messaging. There was an entire social system

00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:02.470
built on top of that. Screen names, buddy lists,

00:16:02.809 --> 00:16:06.210
away messages, secret screen names. The away

00:16:06.210 --> 00:16:10.460
message that was very clearly about one specific

00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:14.789
person, but absolutely was not about one specific

00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:16.909
person. You know what I mean, those vague away

00:16:16.909 --> 00:16:21.149
messages. lyrics, inside jokes, passive aggressiveness.

00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:26.230
You'd sit down at the family computer, hear that

00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:31.419
AIM door opening sound, and suddenly this beige

00:16:31.419 --> 00:16:34.179
box your parents bought because you supposedly

00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:36.259
needed it for school became the center of your

00:16:36.259 --> 00:16:42.259
social life. Now, adults had one idea of what

00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:47.429
the computer was for. We had another. That's

00:16:47.429 --> 00:16:51.149
my spot on this timeline, if you will. The jam

00:16:51.149 --> 00:16:56.120
line Well, that came before me. AIM was the version

00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.419
I actually lived through. Then the technology

00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:02.659
moved again. A younger generation figured out

00:17:02.659 --> 00:17:04.680
that a Google Doc didn't technically have to

00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:06.880
be a document at all. It could be a chat room.

00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.960
If multiple people can type into it at the same

00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.740
time, congratulations, you found your new chat

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:17.220
room. Type the messages, delete them, turn the

00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:21.299
text white. Use something intended for schoolwork

00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:24.079
as a place to talk to your friends. Brilliant.

00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:28.660
And now we've arrived at Spotify comments. You

00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:31.380
can't use the messaging apps you actually want,

00:17:31.420 --> 00:17:34.799
but you can still use Spotify. And guess what?

00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.259
Spotify has comments now. Comments? Well, they

00:17:39.259 --> 00:17:42.680
allow text, they allow emojis. Your friends can

00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:46.420
find those comments. Check. Problem solved. And

00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:50.500
now the timeline is pretty straightforward. Before

00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:53.000
I was born, kids were turning quirks in the telephone

00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.250
network into group chats. When I was growing

00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:58.289
up, we were turning the family computer and aim

00:17:58.289 --> 00:18:01.250
into our social world. The generation after me

00:18:01.250 --> 00:18:03.730
figured out that Google Docs could secretly be

00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:06.829
a messaging software. And now kids are turning

00:18:06.829 --> 00:18:09.589
Spotify podcast comments into underground chat

00:18:09.589 --> 00:18:13.829
rooms. The technology, the underlying technology

00:18:13.829 --> 00:18:16.250
just keeps getting replaced. The behavior barely

00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:19.990
ever changes. That's the part I love about this.

00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:26.140
Every generation of adults seems to think We

00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:28.940
finally built the fence high enough. We finally

00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:32.140
put guardrails up built the walls up every generation

00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:36.119
of kids walks around it goes underneath it jumps

00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:41.569
over give kids a Communication system and they'll

00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:44.730
figure out everything it can do that the person

00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:48.980
who built it You know originally wasn't intended

00:18:48.980 --> 00:18:53.180
it to be used for Take away the communication

00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:55.019
system and they'll start examining everything

00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:58.880
else. Can I type in this? Can somebody else see

00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.839
it? Can my friends find it here? Cool. We got

00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:10.109
a group chat. I think adults sometimes forget,

00:19:10.869 --> 00:19:15.750
you know, forget this because we remember the

00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:20.769
technology from our childhood, but forget the,

00:19:20.930 --> 00:19:25.529
I don't know, the parts where we were constantly

00:19:25.529 --> 00:19:29.359
trying to get around adults too. Our parents

00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.019
had rules, we found loopholes, their parents

00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:38.650
had rules, and they're finding loopholes. Some

00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:42.799
kid right now is probably starting a comment

00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:47.119
section underneath an app nobody has thought

00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.900
about in five years going, hey, wait a minute,

00:19:49.900 --> 00:19:54.180
I can use this. This isn't even really about

00:19:54.470 --> 00:19:57.769
technology. It's about being a kid. Your friends

00:19:57.769 --> 00:20:00.509
are becoming incredibly important to you at exactly

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:05.039
the same part In your life, when adults still

00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.079
control most of your movement, your schedule,

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.359
your money, your access to the outside world,

00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:15.910
of course you're going to improvise. And again,

00:20:16.109 --> 00:20:17.950
that doesn't mean parents shouldn't have rules.

00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:21.309
It doesn't mean every restriction is pointless

00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:25.690
either. The rule and the behavior are two very

00:20:25.690 --> 00:20:30.130
different things. Yeah, we can block TikTok.

00:20:30.890 --> 00:20:33.869
That doesn't eliminate the desire to see what

00:20:33.869 --> 00:20:37.970
everybody else is doing, though, you can block

00:20:38.029 --> 00:20:42.319
messaging apps to the cows come home. That doesn't

00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:44.140
eliminate the desire to talk to your friends.

00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:48.099
It creates a technical challenge. And if there's

00:20:48.099 --> 00:20:53.549
one demographic on this planet with enough free

00:20:53.549 --> 00:20:56.049
time and motivation to solve a completely unnecessary

00:20:56.049 --> 00:20:58.849
technical challenge, it's a group of bored teenagers.

00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.720
Don't test them. That's why I don't hear the

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.619
Spotify story and think, oh no, the children

00:21:09.619 --> 00:21:13.119
have defeated the parental controls. I hear it

00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.960
and think, yeah, there they are doing exactly

00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:20.980
what every generation before them did, just with

00:21:20.980 --> 00:21:24.769
a different equipment. And maybe that's the funniest

00:21:24.769 --> 00:21:28.150
part of this whole thing. The internet is full

00:21:28.150 --> 00:21:33.450
of of these enormous social platforms designed

00:21:33.450 --> 00:21:36.609
by million dollar companies specifically to capture

00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:42.660
young people's attention. They've got teams of

00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:47.549
engineers, recommendation algorithms, push notifications,

00:21:48.470 --> 00:21:50.230
equipment, not equipment, engagement systems,

00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:54.769
billions and billions of dollars spent trying

00:21:54.769 --> 00:21:57.289
to build the place where kids wanna hang out.

00:21:57.609 --> 00:22:02.329
And these kids said, yeah, no thanks. We'll be

00:22:02.329 --> 00:22:06.170
underneath the NPR interview with Elizabeth Gilbert.

00:22:07.849 --> 00:22:13.910
Nobody's using that. Oh, perfect. I'm Tyler.

00:22:13.990 --> 00:22:15.930
This is the Tyler Woodward Project. That's the

00:22:15.930 --> 00:22:17.609
show. If you want to keep up with it, subscribe

00:22:17.609 --> 00:22:19.950
wherever you're listening, and you can find everything

00:22:19.950 --> 00:22:24.730
else, the socials, the tools I'm working on,

00:22:25.369 --> 00:22:27.430
all of that at my website, tylerwoodward .me.

00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:29.789
If you want to buy me a cup of coffee, you can

00:22:29.789 --> 00:22:32.519
also do that at tylerwoodward .me. and if you

00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:38.450
want to leave a voicemail on the show 608 uh

00:22:38.450 --> 00:22:41.730
hang on i forgot it oh my god i'm totally blanking

00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:44.609
here at the end of my episode let's see what

00:22:44.609 --> 00:22:51.670
is it i want to say it's 608 668 uh hang on wow

00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:55.690
i totally had a brain fart yeah 608 668 4702

00:22:55.690 --> 00:22:58.910
there we go see i knew i was right i was questioning

00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:02.589
myself 608 668 4702 leave me a voicemail you

00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:08.289
can also email me tyler at tylerwoodward .me

00:23:08.289 --> 00:23:11.930
Now go start a group chat under one of my episodes.

00:23:12.569 --> 00:23:13.789
I'll catch you guys next week